Apology and Theology

[primus_seeress]

((Blah, this is far ahead in the timeline, since I wasn't going to have her write anything until she's back from Autobot city. Though I guess this is taking place during that, considering the ghosts from the Allspark wandering... heck, I dunno. Will all be rearranged again eventually. :p ))

((Thrust and Auspex got into a bit of a disagreement in this thread, referenced here.))

Auspex has had a few troubling encounters in the Nexus lately... she finds herself preoccupied, worried, praying for her charges more than ever. She is doing so now, in her preferred spot for prayer, arms resting on her knees, palms to the floor, as though she hopes to absorb some reassurance from Primus through the ground.

Pain, fear, chastisement, frustration, exasperation... Primus, soothe them away...

Comments

[startactician.livejournal.com]

*There is a flicker in the air at the doorway, the barest hint that something foreign is present. Thrust lingers, still a bit nervous*

[primus_seeress]

*So close in contact with Primus at the moment, Auspex easily senses the nearby source of nervousness. A few more queries gives her a reasonable idea of who it is. She doesn't rise from her spot immediately, but stays wrapped in prayer, as some slight resentment has crept into the back of her mind; it would not be of service to Primus to let that interfere with her function. Primus, give me patience and understanding...*

[startactician.livejournal.com]

*Thrust takes a few silent footsteps inside, then takes a step backward. Finally, he steps into a nearby alcove and uncloaks*

[primus_seeress]

*Auspex lingers for a moment more, making sure the negative emotions have been fully banished, and thanks her god, before standing quietly, finding the source of the foreign emotion with her optics* Hello, Thrust.

[startactician.livejournal.com]

*steps out* Hello, Auspex. *deep bow, a bit lower than usual*

[primus_seeress]

*Auspex nods her head in return, watching him patiently* You are nervous.

[startactician.livejournal.com]

Only a touch. *holds out a cube of energon, bowing again* We did not part as well as we could have.

[primus_seeress]

*She sighs a little* This is true. But, thank you for coming here. *She approaches, and accepts the energon with a small bow of her own* And thank you for the gift. *she stores it away in a subspace pocket, so it's not in the way, before looking at him expectantly*

[startactician.livejournal.com]

*was hoping to give something quite neutral and not at all relating to anything sentient* I said a few things in anger that I later regretted. I apologize for that. *but it still seems that he is holding something back*

[primus_seeress]

*she nods* I understand; it is forgotten. I admit I don't completely understand why you were angry, but that emotion will often lead to unkind words. It is unfortunate that you said them, but it is easily forgiven. *She falls silent, patiently waiting for him to voice his thoughts*

[startactician.livejournal.com]

I have simply been having...doubts, recently. The normal kind, you understand. *still trying to play nice* Between Windtunnel's return and certain events that I've had too time to think about, I've become a bit more cynical than I should be.

[primus_seeress]

*Auspex blinks at him, trying to read him. She echoes him softly* 'Certain events'? You don't need to tread so delicately with your words, unless you must, to avoid making yourself angry again. Tell me what's troubling you.

[startactician.livejournal.com]

*avoids her gaze, choosing instead to look at one of the mosaics on the wall* I spent so much time worrying about getting back into Primus' favor. I treated him, or at least the concept of him, as I would any other leader that could be bribed or wheedled over to my way of thinking. I needed him to help me on a physical sort of level.

*his gaze wanders over the walls* But now I am free of that obligation. I know that the only thing holding me back now is my own will. And I begin to question why it was allowed to occur in the first place. *he touches a square of gold metal* Simply claiming that it was the will of Primus all along seems...empty.

[primus_seeress]

*She watches as his gaze wanders listlessly, a bit of sadness in her own optics. Those are always hard questions... she sighs again, turning to the nearby table and settling on the seat there. She puts her chin in her hand, tapping thoughtfully* Which? Your temptation to use Unicron's power, or your rejection from the Allspark?

Thrust, I wish I had an easy answer for that, but there isn't one. Everyone has doubt from time to time. There are times I wonder if he is wise enough, or strong enough, or even compassionate enough, to trust with my life, or even with more trivial matters. But, when I look back over the vorns, at the misfortunes in my life, and follow where they have led me, I see that they have changed me; and so often for the better.

[startactician.livejournal.com]

*Thrust taps his finger against the wall* All of it. Primus could have kept me from being seduced and corrupted into aiding Unicron. He could have stopped him before he even transformed. He could turn the tide of the war with a few words. With his power, I could have been spared so much suffering. We all could. What about those of us who were not changed for the better?

[primus_seeress]

But how much have you gained, that you would not otherwise have ever discovered?
You would never have learned the valuable lesson that there is more to life than power; nothing short of a traumatic experience could have turned you away from it.
You were unlikely to have discovered your new universe, or to have met Dreadmoon, and even if you had, you would still have been content to stay where you were already established, lost in your empty power.
You would not have been uncertain enough in your own worth, and uncertain enough of where you would live or what your purpose was, to see through yourself into the emptiness, and seek companionship: to choose to be with someone for who they are, rather than what they have and what they can do for you. How much richer is that than what you had, serving someone you found foolish, for no gain but power and recognition you would one day learn meant nothing?

[startactician.livejournal.com]

So you're saying that the entire point was to somehow play matchmaker and set me up with Dreadmoon, at the cost of my life, power, and reputation? *drags his finger down the wall, tone growing a bit more emotional and higher pitched* That sectors were reduced to rubble and ships plucked out of the sky like flies simply so I could find solace in the arms of the Monitor, without having any choice of my own?

*voice twists into sarcasm* I feel so special.

[primus_seeress]

*she makes a soft little sound of sorrow, regretful for the pain and bitterness in his tone* I was focusing on you, since we were talking about you. But no, it is not as trivial as that. You have changed as a person, and you are in a better position to appreciate what really matters in life; Primus desires us all to reach that point. Despite what you had, Primus needed your attention, to direct you back to him, and you were beyond simple methods; you were no longer listening.

On a more cosmic scale, then: Cybertronians were created to aid Primus in the defeat of Unicron. As a race, we have slowly forgotten our purpose, and started fighting amongst ourselves. Primus had to get the Cybertronian's attention, and show them that there is a bigger fight; therefore, he allowed Unicron to come. In your universe, someone had to awaken him, in order to reveal where Unicron even was. Only in the shadow of immanent destruction, would the people of Cybertron help each other to vanquish him. You were actually a pivotal part of what needed to happen to get Cybertron's attention. And if it had not happened? Unicron would awaken later, on his own, and ravage a Cybertron that was unprepared. In this way, Cybertron was given another chance, many rediscovered their god and prayed for strength in the face of disaster, and you were given a second chance.

[startactician.livejournal.com]

*reluctantly* I never thought about it that way. My sudden departure alerted the Decepticons and encouraged Starscream to do as he did. Perhaps my pain served some sort of purpose, however meaningless.

*He lets his hand slide from the wall, still looking away from Auspex* But the fighting didn't stop there. Unicron was merely a speedbump in the war, we vanquished him and went back to our petty little battles.

If he really has such power and knowledge, why does he do nothing and leave us to destroy ourselves? *There's more emotion in his voice than he would like to have. He's practically shouting.*

[primus_seeress]

Unicron will always return. He is the bringer of Chaos, but Chaos must exist for Order to oppose. It's complicated... as the Covenant says, until all are One, there will be Chaos and Order. We must exist to oppose Chaos, until the time when we are all taken to the Allspark.

The Cybertronians still fight... for several reasons. I think it is partly so that we will retain our warlike nature, and not grow too complacent to be effective when Unicron appears again. I'm afraid there are few other ways to motivate our people... the Golden Ages in my universe were often long periods of complete stagnation as well. Constant war and constant peace are both detrimental to the people as a whole.

[startactician.livejournal.com]

*nods slightly* Constant war and chaos, constant peace and order. Always the balance.

*voice hardens again* And bad luck for all who run afoul of the balance of fate. It is impartial.

[primus_seeress]

Even 'fate' is in the hands of the Greater Creator. And our fates are watched over by our Creator. Bad things happen, but that is simply how life works. Primus does not micromanage our lives, he guides us on our paths; otherwise, we would be nothing but automatons.

Thrust, this is difficult to explain. Primus does not dictate our lives, but comes with us through it, does damage control when we make mistakes, points out the way where he can... but he refuses to take our wills from us. That is our greatest gift, and our greatest curse.

[startactician.livejournal.com]

You're not making any sense. *brushes his fingertips against his spark container casing* Primus cannot keep the Allspark itself from malfunctioning. He cannot light the way for the one who needed it more desperately than any other. I didn't ask for any of this to happen, for the greater good or not.

*finally turns to her* I believe in him. I've seen him, experienced him. But how can he be so loving and so cruel at the same time?

[primus_seeress]

The Allspark has a will of its own, and not even Primus can control it, though he communes with it. But... you know he knows all of our emotions; my own empathy is testimony of that. I reflect his reactions to his children's feelings. Do you think I am cruel? It hurts to see Primus's children suffer. It hurts to hear you so confused and doubtful. Primus's desire to step in and fix everything is very strong! But if we are to live in this universe, among those that are not of his creation, we can't be that reliant on him; the rest of the Greater Creation is too unpredictable.

[startactician.livejournal.com]

*It's an extremely jolting reaction for a child to learn that his parent is fallible, capable of error, as powerless as any other being. That is what Thrust is feeling right now* He has desires, he has empathy for all of us, but if his true power in this world is so weak, what do we need with him?

*touches his spark casing again, now able to feel the subtle presence of another spark within him* The only strength he has is the power to lead us in the right direction, much as the stars dictate our fate.

[primus_seeress]

*She is slightly puzzled* I know very little about astrology... I'm not certain what Primus's, or the Allspark's, relationship is to the workings of the universe, or how the Greater Creator uses them to indicate such things.

Primus actively weaves around us and through us, and through the planet; he can influence events around us, and so guide us through our lives. But it is a complicated pattern he must weave, among so many of us... one thing must happen to one, so that another may experience the repercussions, and in that way also, we cannot always have positive experiences, as we are giving and taking amongst a billion others of our kind.

[startactician.livejournal.com]

The fate of an army may be in the stars, if one knows how to read them.

A balance. The individual forsaken for the good of the whole I suppose that makes sense. *doesn't seem comfortable with the concept*

[primus_seeress]

Why is that, do you think? Does that influence your view of Primus at all?

*gently* In a way. But Primus will lend the strength and companionship required to make it through the negative experiences, if we ask; also, those experiences lead to positive ones later.

[startactician.livejournal.com]

It's just as much a factor as any other point of a battle's environment.

And if we die from them?

[primus_seeress]

*She is still very puzzled* But they are not of the environment, they are far away... I'm just not sure I understand very well.

Then... we ended in a bad experience rather than a good one. Typically... *her voice drops quite a bit* Well, the Allspark makes up for the suffering, with the peace and the sharing of minds. But Primus found other ways to bring you solace.

[startactician.livejournal.com]

They are still a factor in a battle, just as the wind.

*frowns slightly* But this give-and-take, this is not controlled by a conscious mind?

[primus_seeress]

*She shrugs, baffled* Perhaps I cannot understand, then, knowing very little of battle. Observation of the universe's workings are only of use in war, then?

It is controlled by Primus, though our own free wills factor in. If we do not follow his will, he takes our errant decisions into account, and recalculates everything else around us, on however cosmic or minute a scale is necessary, to accomodate, and maintain the flow in the right direction. A large amount of his power and processing is dedicated to constant recalculation of what events are required to fulfill the final destination of our people, as well as the individual children; his ability to process on a cosmic scale, and yet factor in the minutae, is what makes him such a vast and powerful being.

[startactician.livejournal.com]

No, they are involved in all areas of life. They do not dictate our lives, they simply speak truth.

"All is known, but choice is given." *he sounds as if he's quoting someone* If he were to clearly reveal the true path, too many would try to thwart it and delay...whatever it is. Does Primus maintain this flow through subtle manipulations of his children?

[primus_seeress]

Using them to measure what the Greater Creator and all gods below him are arranging? I suppose that's possible.. *she blinks* I'm simply unused to thinking in those terms.

*She nods, seeing he's beginning to understand, before her brow furrows in thought* You could describe it that way... he influences us to the point before our own wills control us, or through the manipulation of Cybertron itself. Despite our free wills, he maintains control over the interweaving. It's not something I can fully understand; I can sense him at work if I concentrate, but I cannot always comprehend how he works.

[startactician.livejournal.com]

*blink* I don't see how Primus has anything to do with it, the stars are quite apart from him.

*Thrust puts his finger to his faceplate* He guides us in the proper direction, but we retain the ability to defy him. The ultimate fate is determined, but the way to get there is chaotic. *his face lights up and he appears to be smiling* It's a bit clearer now.

[primus_seeress]

*Auspex tilts her head, confused again* Then... what do you see when you observe them? I'm rather curious, but I tend to associate prediction with Primus, as he would be the source of any sort of foresight I might have. Stars seem... impersonal. What can you determine, when you are not asking a conscious mind?

*she nods, smiling in relief as his confusion eases somewhat* Yes. I would call it 'fluid' rather than 'chaotic', as the word has other connotations... *her smile turns rueful* But that is the basic principle.

[startactician.livejournal.com]

Determine which way an event will turn out, or the nature of an individual. It's all very generalized, and the usefulness varies.

*touches the mural again* It seems much easier now.

[primus_seeress]

Hmm. *blinks* I see. I will be content with remaining ignorant, then, I think. *she smiles slightly*

*she nods quietly* I hope this eases your mind. Primus is concerned for your well-being, as is his servant. *she nods deferentially*

*she stays put, in case he may have more to say* Is there anything else you wish to discuss? *she looks up at him patiently*

[startactician.livejournal.com]

*once again touches his spark container* No. I believe I am content. Thank you.